From Category: women preachers
I have been listening to teaching from Mike Winger, N.T. Wright, Tim Mackie and Allen Parr on 1 Corinthians 14, specifically the part pertaining to women speaking in church. Some thoughts I've had:
I'm still trying to work out what I believe when it comes to complementarian/egalitarian positions. This is just an attempt at untangling my thoughts and figuring out what I do believe from this passage. There are Bible teachers I greatly admire and respect who take a strong stance on both sides of this debate. Here's to more learning!
- Not permanent. Previously in the chapter, Paul addresses people speaking in tongues and prophesying. To those speaking in tongues he tells them to keep silent if there is no interpreter. To those prophesying he tells them to stop if someone else gets up. The same word is used for both these instances and is used again when he tells women to remain silent (sigao). So he cannot be instructing a permanent silence.
- Not regarding preaching. I think the instruction in verse 35 (“if they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home”) makes it clear that this instruction does not concern preaching. I’m not saying it says that women should preach, just that I don’t think it prohibits it. The verse seems to be concerned with women asking questions, or inquiring about something (perhaps related to prophecy), and that is what they should refrain from doing. The NASB translates it to “if they want to learn anything,” which suggests that this is not in the context of teaching.
- Not regarding prophecy. The rest of the chapter makes no distinction between genders when prophesying. Furthermore, in chapter 11 verse 5, Paul speaks directly to women who are praying and prophesying. Add to that the witness of the many prophetesses in Scripture (e.g. Miriam, Deborah, Huldah, Anna), and it becomes clear that Paul is not saying women cannot speak to prophesy.
- Concerning order. Paul’s primary aim/overall big picture in this chapter, particularly of verses 26-40, is that there is order to the church gathering. He says in verse 33 that God is a God of peace, not disorder, and that this should be reflected in the gatherings of His people. He finishes the chapter by advocating for everyone to encourage prophecy and tongues, but noting that “everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.” This is why I’m not convinced that the instruction to women to keep quiet pertains to authority to weigh the prophecy, as I’ve heard taught. This passage is not discussing church leadership or authority. That verse (v 29) says that “the others should weigh carefully what is said.” I don’t think there’s a clear continuation of the idea in the following verses to make the argument that this is what women are prohibited from doing.
- Situational. That they should ask their husbands seems to me an indication that this can’t be a universal order to all women. Many women do not have husbands, or do not have believing husbands who can answer these questions. Rather, it seems to suggest that this is a situational instruction. He addresses specific situations in the church in Corinth throughout the chapter; debates on the superiority of tongues and prophecy, how to approach the speaking of tongues without an interpreter, the control of those who prophecy over what they say. It is therefore not convenient or stretching to understand the instruction for women to remain quiet for a time as something that speaks to a specific situation. Many suggest that men and women sat separately in this culture, and that the questions or interruptions from wives to their husbands was disruptive to the service.
I'm still trying to work out what I believe when it comes to complementarian/egalitarian positions. This is just an attempt at untangling my thoughts and figuring out what I do believe from this passage. There are Bible teachers I greatly admire and respect who take a strong stance on both sides of this debate. Here's to more learning!
23 February 2022
Published by Zondervan in 2014 (2nd edition), ‘Hearing Her Voice’ by John Dickson is a short book that focuses very specifically on the command from Paul in 1 Timothy 2:12: “I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” Not exactly the kind of message that will go down well in 2021. But Dickson encourages us not to dismiss it (which is what most other soft complementarian or egalitarian arguments I’ve heard tend to do) but to engage with it.
It often feels difficult to find objective information on the subject of women preaching in the church. It seems as though most writers have already made up their mind before they begin writing, and just add in select Bible verses to prove the point they’ve already decided they want to prove. I am trying very hard to be open-minded. Obviously, I want to be able to say that I believe women can speak in churches. But if that is not what God reveals to me, I want to be able to accept that without bitterness.
I think in all things it is important to ask myself: ‘Am I being driven by obedience to my Father?’ I find this so difficult because I love to be right and I also love to prove other people wrong. Neither of these should be my motives for investigating women speaking in churches.
John Dickson’s ‘Hearing Her Voice’ is, in my opinion, a brilliant example of objectivity. He admits that he has changed his opinion on this topic and I think this makes him more sensitive to the variety of counter-arguments he needs to think through in order to prove his point.
In a follow-up document, Dickson summarises his position as this: “Women may give at least some sermons in church because the activity Paul forbids to women in 1 Tim 2:12, called “teaching”, is a special, authoritative form of speaking that cannot be equated with all sermons.”
This is the key of Dickson’s argument: that ‘teaching’ in the New Testament context refers to the preservation and laying down of the apostolic traditions. Because the early church didn’t yet have a New Testament, they relied on oral tradition (inherited from Judaism) to pass on the teachings of Jesus concerning the new covenant age that He had ushered in. Dickson argues that this is the teaching which Paul prohibits women to engage in.
There are two (probably very minor but nonetheless satisfying) things that make a lot of sense to me in light of Dickson’s argument:
Dickson does not ignore 1 Timothy 2:12, nor does he dismiss it as a cultural instruction no longer relevant to us today. I admire how firmly grounded he remains in Scripture throughout this book.
I will admit, his argument did come across as a bit repetitive about halfway through the book, but I think this is because he is eager to clarify his points and avoid misunderstanding.
History and the wide variety of opinions on this subject show us that this is not a straightforward topic, and there are plenty of nuances associated. Therefore, Dickson continually repeats and clarifies his points, balancing possible counter-arguments and returning over and over to his key argument: that teaching refers to the preservation and laying down of the apostolic traditions as received from Jesus and His apostles.
I think he has made a strong case for the use of teaching to refer to the passing down of apostolic tradition. He himself admits, however, that though the different types of speaking (exhortation, prophecy, teaching, evangelism) are distinct enough for Paul to refer to them as “different gifts” (Romans 12:4-8), there is undeniable overlap.
At the end of his book, Dickson envisions four responses. I think I am inclined to agree with his own perspective, which is the third envisioned response: that teaching, though it does not refer to most modern-day sermons, does still exist today. I think that the complementarian nature of male and female is upheld throughout the Bible, and this is important to maintain at church services. How this plays out is clearly subject to much debate.
Dickson doesn’t really explain what teaching today will look like. To be fair, he does admit himself that this might frustrate readers but argues that this is an open discussion.
I think in all things it is important to ask myself: ‘Am I being driven by obedience to my Father?’ I find this so difficult because I love to be right and I also love to prove other people wrong. Neither of these should be my motives for investigating women speaking in churches.
John Dickson’s ‘Hearing Her Voice’ is, in my opinion, a brilliant example of objectivity. He admits that he has changed his opinion on this topic and I think this makes him more sensitive to the variety of counter-arguments he needs to think through in order to prove his point.
In a follow-up document, Dickson summarises his position as this: “Women may give at least some sermons in church because the activity Paul forbids to women in 1 Tim 2:12, called “teaching”, is a special, authoritative form of speaking that cannot be equated with all sermons.”
This is the key of Dickson’s argument: that ‘teaching’ in the New Testament context refers to the preservation and laying down of the apostolic traditions. Because the early church didn’t yet have a New Testament, they relied on oral tradition (inherited from Judaism) to pass on the teachings of Jesus concerning the new covenant age that He had ushered in. Dickson argues that this is the teaching which Paul prohibits women to engage in.
There are two (probably very minor but nonetheless satisfying) things that make a lot of sense to me in light of Dickson’s argument:
- We weigh modern sermons now; we do not accept them as absolute truth. All ‘teaching’ today is judged against Scripture. There exists, therefore, a parallel between modern sermons and Paul’s instruction regarding prophecy in the church (1 Corinthians 14:29).
- Women are clearly seen and encouraged to participate in church services in other parts of Paul’s letters and the rest of the Bible. There are numerous women listed in the New Testament who served the church, who prophecised, who held churches in their homes. Clearly, the early church did not exclude women from most aspects of church life and leadership.
I will admit, his argument did come across as a bit repetitive about halfway through the book, but I think this is because he is eager to clarify his points and avoid misunderstanding.
History and the wide variety of opinions on this subject show us that this is not a straightforward topic, and there are plenty of nuances associated. Therefore, Dickson continually repeats and clarifies his points, balancing possible counter-arguments and returning over and over to his key argument: that teaching refers to the preservation and laying down of the apostolic traditions as received from Jesus and His apostles.
I think he has made a strong case for the use of teaching to refer to the passing down of apostolic tradition. He himself admits, however, that though the different types of speaking (exhortation, prophecy, teaching, evangelism) are distinct enough for Paul to refer to them as “different gifts” (Romans 12:4-8), there is undeniable overlap.
At the end of his book, Dickson envisions four responses. I think I am inclined to agree with his own perspective, which is the third envisioned response: that teaching, though it does not refer to most modern-day sermons, does still exist today. I think that the complementarian nature of male and female is upheld throughout the Bible, and this is important to maintain at church services. How this plays out is clearly subject to much debate.
Dickson doesn’t really explain what teaching today will look like. To be fair, he does admit himself that this might frustrate readers but argues that this is an open discussion.
I do think there’s more scope here to investigate exactly how headship in the church would interact with this perception of 1 Timothy 2:12, and what teaching today would look like, but I don’t think this was what ‘Hearing Her Voice’ set out to do. Dickson has presented his argument and, as with most good arguments, the door is now opened to further discussion.
Nevertheless, I did find some helpful reviews on Goodreads which gave some ideas of the application for modern-day teaching: setting out the church beliefs for church plants or position papers, deciding/confirming church positions on issues being challenged today by society like sexuality or hell, laying down afresh (possibly in sermon) the doctrines that we believe. I think of the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15.
A whole book was published to respond to this ‘Hearing Her Voice’ (which is kind of impressive, if a little terrifying). The book, ‘Women, Sermons and the Bible,’ is a collection of essays from different scholars critiquing Dickson’s position. The description reads: “The book [Hearing Her Voice] excited considerable discussion because of the original and challenging way in which it made its case—particularly in its argument that the prohibitions of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 no longer apply to the modern day sermon.”
I’ve not read ‘Women, Sermons and the Bible,’ but, personally, this seems to be misunderstanding Dickson’s argument. I think he goes to great lengths to emphasise that he is not arguing “that the prohibitions of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 no longer apply to the modern-day sermon.” Instead, he argues that the prohibitions of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 never applied to the modern-day sermon (and its ancient equivalent; words of exhortation or perhaps also prophecy).
My pastor has recommended Claire Smith’s ‘God’s Good Design’ to me, which I will read next. From the endnotes and some Googling, it is clear that Smith does not agree with Dickson in his interpretation of this subject (she was actually one of the contributors to ‘Women, Sermons and the Bible’). I look forward to investigating her arguments.
For now, however, I have greatly enjoyed ‘Hearing Her Voice’ by John Dickson, and I believe he puts forward a compelling, well-balanced argument for women to preach.
Nevertheless, I did find some helpful reviews on Goodreads which gave some ideas of the application for modern-day teaching: setting out the church beliefs for church plants or position papers, deciding/confirming church positions on issues being challenged today by society like sexuality or hell, laying down afresh (possibly in sermon) the doctrines that we believe. I think of the Council at Jerusalem in Acts 15.
A whole book was published to respond to this ‘Hearing Her Voice’ (which is kind of impressive, if a little terrifying). The book, ‘Women, Sermons and the Bible,’ is a collection of essays from different scholars critiquing Dickson’s position. The description reads: “The book [Hearing Her Voice] excited considerable discussion because of the original and challenging way in which it made its case—particularly in its argument that the prohibitions of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 no longer apply to the modern day sermon.”
I’ve not read ‘Women, Sermons and the Bible,’ but, personally, this seems to be misunderstanding Dickson’s argument. I think he goes to great lengths to emphasise that he is not arguing “that the prohibitions of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 no longer apply to the modern-day sermon.” Instead, he argues that the prohibitions of 1 Timothy 2:11-12 never applied to the modern-day sermon (and its ancient equivalent; words of exhortation or perhaps also prophecy).
My pastor has recommended Claire Smith’s ‘God’s Good Design’ to me, which I will read next. From the endnotes and some Googling, it is clear that Smith does not agree with Dickson in his interpretation of this subject (she was actually one of the contributors to ‘Women, Sermons and the Bible’). I look forward to investigating her arguments.
For now, however, I have greatly enjoyed ‘Hearing Her Voice’ by John Dickson, and I believe he puts forward a compelling, well-balanced argument for women to preach.
19 April 2021
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